I don't think anyone posted anything that wasn't pure speculation. No, I don't think it's fair if his actual grades are posted, or that rumors be spread. I think that would be an extreme violation of privacy.

However, the rest of the world is "judged" upon the merit of results, your body of work. I find it entirely fair that our basketball players, student athletes, and our student body be held to those type of standards. I think it's entirely fair that if expected to go to class, our student athletes actually attend class, that they put forth the effort in which they are being rewarded for by scholarship.

I don't think anyone posted anything that wasn't pure speculation.
No, I don't think it's fair if his actual grades are posted, or that rumors be spread. I think that would be an extreme violation of privacy.
--Speculation or not. It is below board. If it was speculation,,,then it is a rumor, right? and it was posted by an nonymous person. ie. equals below board.

However, the rest of the world is "judged" upon the merit of results, your body of work. I find it entirely fair that our basketball players, student athletes, and our student body be held to those type of standards. I think it's entirely fair that if expected to go to class, our student athletes actually attend class, that they put forth the effort in which they are being rewarded for by scholarship.
--OK. Having that posted anonymously on the internet is a different animal. A players body of work regarding his or her GPA should be off limits on this board.
Either swamp's post was below board or not. You are equivocating.

ASk yourself if it was your kid and you knew he was being a slacker, not attending class and grades were poor. And you as a parent were trying to do something about it. Meanwhile, an anonymous poster on the internet posted rumors and others say those rumors are OK because he gets a scholarship.

Some rumors and/or things are best left unposted.

I only wish Jordan Scott the best as I hope he ends up at Francis Marion so his parents won't have to drive so far to see their son. They were the only parents at the Morehead State game in Morehead and saw them on a couple of other road trips as really nice people. Coug5674, we have a good group of players as my dad met with a young lady who is organizing a mission trip for Willis Hall and Trent Weideman. When I was in college, going on a mission trip was the last thing on my mind but glad to hear we have players wanting to help people in rough situations.

10-4 on this post.

Airing GPA's and/or runors of GPA's are beneth us, IMO.

Sweetpea, I think we agree on this more than we disagree. I'm not equivocating. I do not believe that his personal information should be released here, nor should rumor be posted to his GPA.

I wasn't okaying what was posted, and maybe you probably weren't saying we shouldn't hold him to a higher standard. My point being, we shouldn't make excuses.

That being said, and I know you'll want to skewer me for saying this, if you don't want rumor or reputation killing information to get out about you, then you should probably do something about it before it turns into that.

I played college athletics, and I know the rigors of travel and academics as well as the expectations athletically. It's extremely tough, time consuming, and tiring. Further, I commend our kids who do prosperous work in our community, as well as excelling on the court and in the classroom. I'm proud of them, and our College should be proud of them and celebrate it.

I do believe it was below board, but my point relates more to "work ethic." Which is a commonly scrutinized facet of athletes.

I don't think it's fair at all.

I also don't think it's fair to waste a scholarship made possible by the generosity of many hardworking people, nor is it fair to potentially wreck the Academic Progress Rate of a school and potentially cause a scholarship to be withheld from a more deserving student in the future.

In reality the answer is simple - If you don't want (or can't handle) public scrutiny about your class attendance and/or study habits (among many other things) then a scholarship to participate in NCAA athletics is probably not the best thing for you. Plenty of precious little snowflakes at colleges all across the land quit attending classes and drop out and are free of the burden of internet forum scrutiny when doing so largely because the bill for that failed attempt is not being footed by the school's fan base.

Sdrawkcab,
Not quite sure I understand the intonation of you post. First you state that you don't believe that posting specific things about individuals at CofC is fair then you go on a diatribe about how any scholarship athlete should be ready to accept public scrutiny.

Like it or not this public forum is very accessible to anyone with access to Google.
If you plug in Jordan Scott Transfer CofC this thread pops up.

We don't have a private section where more sensitive information is privy to a precious few. Ever notice that the people "in the know" are very careful about what they post? It is because everyone can see it.

Spare me the sanctimonious BS that a scholarship athlete sould be privelaged to go to CofC. You don't think this is a mutual relationship? You don't think that CofC profits with name recognition from Goudelock. We aren't Duke or Kentucky. Adjehi Baru came to CofC because it was smaller and more intimate. These guys work hard for CofC they don't some anonymous person posting if they go to class or not. If they flunk out THEY have to live with the consequenses not you.
So maybe we should start posting when kids on academic scholarships start flunking tests. How is that different?

sd and 5647, yall say that posting rumors of and/or the grades of a player by an anonymous person on an internet forum is not OK.

Then you give me a list of reasons why it is OK.


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The grades / class attendance of players ARE valid concerns for the program. Airing them on this forum is below board.

I didn't post the info and wouldn't have. I run a small business, and people are free to post how they feel about me on the internet and my services. I don't always thinks it's fair. You know what I do, I make sure it doesn't happen by doing the right things.

There is a time for a man to be a man. I'm sure any college coach who's worth a damn would say the same thing. If our Coach doesn't believe that our student athletes should be held responsible for their actions, including and especially their class attendance and academic records, then I for sure don't want them here at CofC.

Meaning what? It's ok fro Someone Else to post rumors of and/or the grades of a player?

Come on a little. You can't be fully serious with this?

5674, I thought you worked for your family business as did not realize you ran your own small business. No one is saying don't hold people accountable but without knowing all the facts of the situation with Jordan Scott, no need to spread information that no one can confirm or deny. If I am remembering correctly, Wojcik had a pretty good rate of graduating players. I am just ready to see the finished schedule and who we actually have on scholarship for next season.

I don't think I ever advocated, in any of my posts, that we do post that information.

I just want accountability to be upheld. That's all. I guess it's a derivative point. I'm out on this thing.

Where to begin....

....meh. Nevermind. Posts like this are why there's about 7 people posting here regularly anymore. Let's just brush it under the rug and then we can act all out of sorts over losing a scholarship in a year or two when our APR dips. In the meantime let's get back to singing the praises of Byington and moving to a conference more worthy of a program of our stature.

I'm done here (again) too.

"Spare me the sanctimonious BS that a scholarship athlete sould be privelaged to go to CofC. You don't think this is a mutual relationship? You don't think that CofC profits with name recognition from Goudelock. We aren't Duke or Kentucky. Adjehi Baru came to CofC because it was smaller and more intimate. These guys work hard for CofC they don't some anonymous person posting if they go to class or not. If they flunk out THEY have to live with the consequenses not you.
So maybe we should start posting when kids on academic scholarships start flunking tests. How is that different?"


Actually, we do live with the consequences.... Reputation, APR, scholarships.... Scholarship athletes ARE privileged to go to CofC, and the sooner they start thinking that, the better. They aren't owed a scholarship.

5674,

Your "That being ssaid" and "However" comments leave a lot for interpretation.

You state it is not OK to post grades / that you wouldn't post grades. Then in the very same posts you give reason to believe that you believe it is OK.

Equivocating:

" if you don't want rumor or reputation killing information to get out about you, then you should probably do something about it before it turns into that. "

"However, the rest of the world is "judged" upon the merit of results, your body of work. I find it entirely fair that our basketball players, student athletes, and our student body be held to those type of standards. I think it's entirely fair that if expected to go to class, our student athletes actually attend class, that they put forth the effort in which they are being rewarded for by scholarship."

"There is a time for a man to be a man. I'm sure any college coach who's worth a damn would say the same thing. If our Coach doesn't believe that our student athletes should be held responsible for their actions, including and especially their class attendance and academic records, then I for sure don't want them here at CofC."

--All of those statements alone make sense. But, in the context of grades being posted anonymously on an internet forum,,,they leave a lot open for interpretation.

So,,,yeah, I'm serious.

5674
I can understand your intent. I don't think anyone here is advocating that the inmates run the asylum. The biggest reason I wanted Herrion out is the damage he was doing for the academic reputation of my alma mater.
That being said...
I look at guys flunking and the APR stuff that goes along with it a little differently than you.

Allow me to make another analogy that I believe is relevant.
Players are like stocks. There are some that are high risk high reward(i.e. talented guys that are academically questionable) then there are low risk low reward(low ceiling high character players that are academically stellar).
High Ceiling athletes that are high achievers academically(Jody Lumpkin) are the holy grail. Everyone wants them believe me, but we are not Duke.

CofC has every right to offer whomever we want scholarships. If a player cannot cut it academically or psychologically handle the rigors of being a D1 athlete it isn't the players fault it is CofC's, because we are the one that ultimately OFFERED him/her the scholarship.

Seriously?
If my post is the thing that "drives you away" perhaps being on a message board is not for you.

FWIW
In the large academic organization that I worked for/studied posting personal information on social media about high profile individuals in the organization was grounds for termination. I saw it happen.

What was posted was that it was observed that a kid quit going to his classes during the last semester and speculation as to what his GPA might be for that semester as a result of that action. That's not really personal information, is it? I mean unless he was attending online classes only then there would be a significant number of people not employed by the institution who were witness to a noticeable absence from classes for the remainder of a semester. Not exactly top-secret stuff.

And you are right about one thing, this message board is definitely not for me. You 7-10 regulars left here....enjoy.

Uhh. + 1 or whatever type of geek lingo you're supposed to use on message boards.

The biggest factor in libel/slander issues is whether or not the person is a public figure.

Here probably falls more on the side of public figures for CofC basketball, though that would be argued.

Difference is important in that you can essentially say most anything about a public figure w/o much regard to accuracy, whereas accusations against private citizens would require a greater belief in the truth of the statements you are making public.

As a speech issue there is nothing stopping anyone from making accurate assertions about anyone.

The wisdom of making such statements is another matter.

Who is saying, how they know, how that may violate their job requirements are other matters still.

Generally I think grades are fair game in this forum as grades directly impact the ability of these guys to play and they are public enough figures to the point where there is an internet message board dedicated to talking about their expolits, triumphs and failures.

I am sorry I posted this and would retract it if I could.
Clearly not an analogous situation.
Also it was not meant to be a starting off point to discuss the legalities of what happened here, though it appears to have taken that form.

Clearly there is a split.
Some believe that discussing specifics of player academic and less so social lives is perfectly reasonable considering their status and what they receive from CofC.

I don't. I think it reflects poorly on us and is a bad advertisement for this program. It may cause us to lose a perfectly good recruit down the road who would lurk on this board to get insight on the atmosphere of the program.

Just a counter point, you can't have one and not the other. If you want to reasonably say that then talk of excellent academic records and mission work is off the table too.

I'm not going anymore rounds with this, I think my point is lost on most, and I don't feel like arguing with "teammates" over something I consider a philosophical difference.

Posting players' grades and/or rumors of their grades is below board, IMO.

In the context of THIS thread it is unbecoming of us. Sour grapes. Some things are better left unposted.